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Post by Renaissance Man on Jul 29, 2004 2:14:45 GMT -5
There's been a lot of talk about whose the best of the best, lets call all these guys the A list, who were the top bowlers right below them, lets say the B+ list.
I know there were a bunch of guys in that category, great action bowlers that weren't quite good enough or stupid enough to go against the A guys.
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old dog
Junior Member
The 60's were the best
Posts: 83
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Post by old dog on Jul 29, 2004 2:27:58 GMT -5
What list do these guys go on?
Billy Picone
Bob Simonilli
Bobby Smith
Burt Goodman
Ed Ditilla
Freddie Chin
Ira Katz
Jack Clamente
Mac Wagner
Stoop
Mike Kilgannon
Oscar Pickenheim
Pete Pastor
Phil Marino
Sis Montavani
Tavie
Tom Caputo
Tommy Camalleri
Tommy DiNardo
Tommy Ermolovich
Tony Marine
Vince Pantuso
Willie Panzarino
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Post by Billy Tops on Jul 29, 2004 2:37:31 GMT -5
Maybe there has to also be an A+ list that only a handfull goes into such as the Horn, Lemmon, and who else
What's the best way to break this down, I figure there's at least 2 top level lists, I figure a guy like Ernie would go into the secondary top list. and then a major third list below that.
It would be interesting to see who puts who into which list.
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Post by thecane on Aug 10, 2004 12:08:38 GMT -5
it would be unfair to classify anybody on the b list or a list, until you clarify , was it because3 of their bowling ability or the monies they made from bowling.
you have guys like ermo caputi and camillari , who didnt bowl that much action, who probably could be a list bowlers i bowled with ermo and caputi in leagues, and they could have money at hustling or tour , but how much hard to say.
then you have the a list guys, which ernie should not be taken off since if you go by all his bowling earnings, i would say made more than all of the other n y a guys, like lemon richie mark and joey and johnny , and probably still has it all.
i dont think you would call it a hustle, but when you have a bowling bag company and sell it to the japanese for more than a million bucks, and i would also venture to say when you have the rights to the finger grips in your bowling balls today for the last 30 some odd years, that bring a few million more at 10 cents a grip or more, including his tour victories and action, do you think any of the other guys made a million in one day on tour? no it took them the better part of 20 years.
the cane
just my opinion
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Post by Louis Capasso on Aug 10, 2004 19:28:03 GMT -5
heres my oppinion
hornet lemengello kitter berardi rudy revs. that would be my a list.
these guys were awsome. the only one i really never saw was lemongello. but there were hundreds of great bowlers. perry, schlagel, pappas, snake, engan,val macari, spallone,viale,neumann, killer, johnny meyers ira katz charlie venable joe s, fats and deacon,buffalo,god the list can go on forever.. i only bowled from 73 to81 and than again from 84 to 89 on and off. but had the pleasure of bowling many of these guys. and beating most. so i will put myself in here . but there are still many many more guys who were awsome not from the ny nj area.
cane mentioned cammillari, tom was a charter member of the pba and an awesome bowler with great knowledge of the game. he invented many parts that are still in use by bowling alleys today. funny thing is everyone would pick some one different
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Post by Renaissance Man on Aug 10, 2004 19:53:47 GMT -5
it would be unfair to classify anybody on the b list or a list, until you clarify , was it because3 of their bowling ability or the monies they made from bowling. you have guys like ermo caputi and camillari , who didnt bowl that much action, who probably could be a list bowlers i bowled with ermo and caputi in leagues, and they could have money at hustling or tour , but how much hard to say. then you have the a list guys, which ernie should not be taken off since if you go by all his bowling earnings, i would say made more than all of the other n y a guys, like lemon richie mark and joey and johnny , and probably still has it all. i dont think you would call it a hustle, but when you have a bowling bag company and sell it to the japanese for more than a million bucks, and i would also venture to say when you have the rights to the finger grips in your bowling balls today for the last 30 some odd years, that bring a few million more at 10 cents a grip or more, including his tour victories and action, do you think any of the other guys made a million in one day on tour? no it took them the better part of 20 years. the cane just my opinion Lets say the list should be on pure ability, to be on the list they had to of bowled some action, not a lot but some. |
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Post by Renaissance Man on Aug 10, 2004 20:05:06 GMT -5
Lou, wouldn't you think the list would have to be broken down into at least three categories, with you in the middle one.
It would be interesting to see what action bowlers bowlers were assigned to what division. Guys like the Beeber, Buffalo, The Cane, Richie Grossman, The Farina Brothers, Kenny Barber, Les Sager, Les Shirwindt , Louie Spadaro, Mike Foti, Mousie Bonsignori, Palase Brothers, etc. would belong in category 3,
The smallest category would of course be category 1, with a load of great bowlers going into category 2
Who would you guys put where?
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old dog
Junior Member
The 60's were the best
Posts: 83
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Post by old dog on Aug 11, 2004 1:27:07 GMT -5
Here's my list of some of the guys I'd put in category 2, if anyone disagrees with any of them I'd like to hear it.
Who would be considered the best of the category 2 bowlers?
My Category 2 Action Bowlers
Ben McNevich
Billy Picone
Bob Perry
Bob Simonelli
Bobby Spallone
Burt Goodman
Charlie Faino
Charlie Venable
Dewey Blair
Dick Battista
Ed Ditilla
Ernie Schlegel
Hank Behrbom
Iggy Russo
Ira Katz
Jack Clamente
Jimmy Allen
Joe the snake Lorenzo
Joe Lyons
Joe Santini
Joe Scianna Jr.
Johnny Myers
Johnny Petraglia
Junie McMahon
Lindy Farragali
Lou Capasso
Mac Wagner
Mark Roth
Mike Kilgannon
Oscar Pickenheim
Phil Marino
Ralph Engan
Sis Montavani
Stoop
Tavie
Teata Semiz
Tom Caputo
Tommy Camalleri
Tommy Ermolovich
Tony Marine
Tony Sparando
Val Macari
Vince Pantuso
Willie Panzarino
There all great, I think on any one given day the guy who could be the most dangerous was Lou Capasso, I say this because there were many a day he just blew away anyone he bowled.
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Post by Louis Capasso on Aug 11, 2004 8:49:23 GMT -5
thanks dog but there were many better than me. but the truth is there were only 2 matches i feared in my whole bowling career. the first was the hornet in our 1st match (which he won)a 5 game freeze out. but funny thing was 2 days later in a straight match i was not nervous and beat him 8 straight.the second match was perry at columbia lanes i had just started bowling again after about a 5 year layoff.i ended ,up 3 games after about 14 games. my opinion one of the toughest bowlers was roy garcea from madison sq garden and bowlmor. i have known him since we were 13 or so and roy was very very tough. he was deadly accurate and could grind out matches on the tough conditions of the mid 70's to the early 80's. when i won the pba regional in plainfield bowl roy was in the finals. by the way i see oscar pickenhiem regurlarly at circle lanes he is still great, averages about 230. but the best of that group was ...................... FAINO............. charlie was so accurate and threw one of the best full rollers ever. oh yes and he was one of the characters of the game. i am sorry i left him off my list but i would put him in the "a" catagory. thanks for remembering him i must be getting old and forgetting.
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Post by thecane on Aug 11, 2004 13:16:05 GMT -5
i think your 3 list is correct, but i beat at least 7 or 8 guys on your 2 list and lost to maybe 2 . i dont see stillman on your 2 list , and if you want to go by betting his own money big and not afraid to bowl any of the 2 list or #1 list guys Jamsie would be #1 . when he bet it up , he bet it up. like the time i warned snake about , his , (jamsies pump bets) , and snake wins 8 in row starting out at 50 a game and losing the last 2 for 3200 a game , who is number 1 , when snake cant come up with next bet of 5000 and jamsie would say thats it i got your money, after losing 8 of ten.
or a tannagretta , starting with 50 bucks along with the count simonelli and spallone along with snake managing a 200 dollar 1st bet and parleying 5 staright games vs the whale ira katz at colonial in staten island, where ira was losing to 190 170 and even 160 games, unknown tto ira that the house was probably the worst lefty house in the country. every pair had high boards all over the left side, as well as closed racks on the left and wide open on the right.
yenza , couldnt beat me in a tune up for hornreich, in 3 games there, i was finished bowling 15 years, so he decided , if he cant beat a crippled hasbeen , how is he going to beat a healthy richie there. i shot 608 he shot 490 after 40 minutes practice for him and none for me. so much for lefty vs righty
the cane
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Post by leiloni on Mar 2, 2019 16:32:46 GMT -5
Does anyone on here know where Oscar Pickenheim is? He is my uncle and I would like to know more about him. My mother is Joyce Pickenheim and she told me he did well with bowling and I have been trying to find him for years with no luck. Im in my 30's now and I don't know to much about who he is. I have never even seen a picture of him. Im hoping maybe someone knows him and would be able to get a message to him for me so that I can get to know my uncle. My name is Leiloni and I'm his sister Joyce's oldest daughter. Please tell him that I have been looking for him. I didn't know how else to find him.
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