Mixed Bag Of Action Stories

[Billy Tops]

From time to time I'll keep adding some of the previous stories and opinions that were posted to this site in the past.

[Billy Tops]

Jeff Kidder:

Question: As good as these great sixties action bowlers were, how do they stack up against Jeff Kidda, I could be wrong but I think Jeff bowled in more big action matches than anyone else and stayed on top longer than the rest.

Why didn't Jeff ever turn pro.

Answer: To me Jeff was second to Dewey who only bowled for a year or so and Jeff bowled forever so hard to say.

As far as why Jeff never turned pro is very simple. He made a lot more money betting basketball and football then he could ever have made on tour. Most of you don't know this but Jeff is a genius. He had bookies in many states and would bet both teams in their home town and catch middles for BIG money.

I used to play golf with Jeff, Joey B. and Teata every Wed. in Paramus. We played partners and switched every week. Teata is about a 4 handicap and the rest of us were about 12's so whoever had Teata got strokes.

Jeff had ice in his veins I swear. If he needed to make a putt for the $ he made it....period. Last I heard he owned a couple of restaurants and would use his plane to back and forth....yes he is a pilot. Till next time.....

===================================

Jeff kidder got really good when urethane lanes came in 1976. before that charlie faino was the best in the country for about 5 years. jeff retired from gambling a few years ago, lives in Hilton head and plays the market for a few clients as told to me by his former partner Bill Daly.

Daly also kept a diary of all the matches they were involved in. To say kidder was the second best, you probably never saw much of Hornreich. He beat up on better bowlers. kidder did not have alot of tough competition, although he did crush Roth at Rainbow in a doubles match.

He never went on tour, because he gave up the game to become a professional gambler. he was one of the biggest around, betting 10g a game and up.

==================================

Jeff was making big gambling bets before he started to bowl action. He quit the action because it was hard to find big money matches.

==================================

I first met Jeff when Charlie tuna brought him to Raceway when he was about 15 in 1969 or 1970. Jeff started making those big bets on sports after 1975.

I knew him from 1969-1975. We used to call him Young Jeffrey. HE bowled alot of doubles with JOhnny Bell during the early seventies. They rarely if ever lost.

He quit the game in 1981 to focus on being a professional gambler. These are facts. I came back to the game in 1982 and he was gone.

=================================

More on Jeff. You should locate his partner, Bill Daly. He has a diary of all the matches they were involved in.

Heard that he carried his own pins. He did challenge Earl Anthony at Garden City. Earl told him to come to Seattle. He did. For reasons unknown, the match never took off. He did not always win the big ones. In 1978, he traveled to Baltimore and either bowled Pete Couture or george Pappas. Jeff lost around 5g.

[Billy Tops]

Last night (11/24/03) 2 of the young stars of the PBA tour, DJ Archer and Chris Johnson, bowled Judge and John Rubeo on the infamous "S" pattern at Van Nest Lanes.

If you will recall from previous posts, both Rudy "Revs" Kasimakis and Robert Smith bowled John Rubeo singles on this pattern. Rudy went 4 down, and Robert broke even.

3 games of doubles were bowled, with Judge & John losing the 1st game then winning the next 2.

Then the match was moved to the regular house shot, where Judge & John won 2 more games before DJ Archer quit.

Chris Johnson then bowled Judge singles, 1st game on the house shot which Judge won, then back to the "S" shot, where Judge won, then finally switching to a Fresh "S" shot pair, where Judge won the final game. Chris Johnson then quit.

Scores were as follows:

Game 1 ("S" pattern)
John 148, Judge 167
DJ 189, Chris 174 (WINNER)

Game 2
John 289, Judge 185 (WINNER)
DJ 141, Chris 199

Game 3
John 201, Judge 167 (WINNER)
DJ 161, Chris 145

Game 4 (House shot)
John 183, Judge 279 (WINNER)
DJ 142, Chris 265

Game 5
John 199, Judge 236 (WINNER)
DJ 183, Chris 225

Game 6
Judge 280 (WINNER)
Chris 258
Note - both players started X / X X X X X X X - Chris left the 2-8 in the 10th, Judge struck to win.

Game 7 ("S" Shot)
Judge 225
Chris 153

Game 8 (Fresh "S" Shot)
Judge 236
Chris 171

All told John & Judge won 4 of 5 in doubles, and Judge won 3 straight vs Chris in singles.

Another evening of quality bowling at Van Nest lanes.

[Billy Tops]

Question:
What house had the longest run of big time action, who was second & third. How long, and what where the years...Herbie

Answer:
Oldest action house is probably Homefield in the yonkers area. Daily afternoon action house for probably around forty years.

Woodhaven lanes in queens maybe number two. action constantly there sat nights from early eighties until early or mid nineties.


I can't believe Lenny went back into the frying pan. After that first marriage was finally over and Lenny started leading a real life in Florida, making money, doing what he wanted when he wanted, living the life he deserved to live how did he get sucked in again, I really thought he was to smart to be trapped like a rat.

I don't know his new wife but I'll give ya 10 to 1 odds Lenny is saying to himself, what a schmuck I was, how did I fall for this shit, just about all women are demanding and demeaning, I bet she is totally controlling him because unlike his brother Buffalo, Lennys a nice guy.

I feel so bad for him, what a shame, woman are also very abusive in their own way, I hope for Lenny's sake that at least there's only her and she didn't bring a whole family into the mix for Lenny to suppoert.

Lenny, WHY?
Give Me A Break...


What the hell does Lenny getting married have to do with this topic. Whoever you are, didn't you have a mother? Get a life.

Now let's get back to all the great people and action stories.
SW...


The cane did marry again with luggage. he had many problems in the beginning and was ready to pack it in. She was abusive. Apparently, they worked it out because he seems to be happy. However, she did take him away from the one thing he loved, bowling and action. Hopefully, since has now hibernated, we will hear more stories.
ExDegenerate...


How did the Horn do playing the gutter?? I know I saw Richie get beat but I never saw Dewey get beat so I still disagree about who was better. If you never saw Dewey you really can't comment. Any of you oldtimers who saw both of them give us a vote. Another great inside shooter before central was a guy named Frankie Medici out of Tremont Lanes in the Bronx. I have a great beeper story but I'll save it for another time.
JK...


Saw Joey Berardi at his father's funeral about a month ago. He is living in Staten Island and sells MRI equipment. He said he has his own company. Another great talent (like the Horn) who had a big gambling problem.
JK...


It was Berardi's wife that had the problem. A degenerate gambler. That is the reason, he quit the tour. Whatever he was winning, she was losing.
And Berardi's best in ACTION was not close to how good Richie was in ACTION. As to the tour, Berardi was the first bowler that i ever saw win a stop playing inside the 5th diamond. This HOF won the US OPEN, MASTERS AND TOC.
ExDegenerate...

Central lanes in yonkers around from early sixties until it burned down in 1968 biggest of all times, saturday night until sometimes sunday evening. most weekends at least 40 out of the 50 lanes had action. it was incredible, like continuous casino action. bowlers came from all over, as far as Florida looking for action. if you were looking for action no matter how bad you were or how good it was there. once in a lifetime. never again

===================================

I disagree. Gun Post had as much or more action than Central but because it got raided and all the action then moved to Central.

There were nights at Gun Post that you couldn't get to the snack bar because it was so crowded. Action on just about every pair and all the big names. Jake Charter, Joel Meyers, Frankie Medici, Ernie, Mike Limengello, Fats and Deacon, RALPH, Howie Polefski, (my favorite) Jack Clemente, Iggy Russo, Chicago Bill, Billy The Kid, Doc Iandoli etc. etc. etc.

If you remember Gun Post, here is a trivia question: What was the name of the manager?

===================================

Jk, you are right about GunPost. Don't remember the manager's name but remember sitting down around three am at the counter for a burger next to Pyscho Dave and saying "how you doing". He said he lost $20. Found out he had started with $20, bowled Ralph Engan and beat him about seven straight doubling each game until he was up 1280 bucks and lost the eighth.

Stevie Wonder...

================================

I was part of the action scene at Ave M Bowl in Brooklyn in the sixties, at that time there were many action houses it was great.

I've been to Central a few times but know nothing about Gun Post, I'd love to hear some more.

What years, what nites, what were some of the big matches, I'm an action freak, to bad it doesn't exsist anymore.
=======================================

Big Mouth Billy, no I'm not shear. I was from upper Manhattan and had a pro shop on Broadway from 1963-68. The glory days. Spent much time at Central, Gunpost, Yonkers, Inwood(my house), The Hub, Homefield, Skytop, Fiesta, Whitestone, etc.
SW...


Nothing compared to Central. Ask anybody that was there. Whenever the pros were in town, they knew where to go.


Question for Stevie Wonder. Who was the best action bowler you saw?


Ernie Schlegel was the toughest, feared nobody. Also loved Ralph Engan.

But for one year at Central Dewey Blair was incredible, then he dissapeared.
SW...


Steve, what did you think of Jeff Kidda, I thought he had ice water in his veins, the best I ever saw.

Do you know of any bigger backer than Bill Daley.
Big Mouth...


Stevie Wonder. Surprised you forgot about Hornreich and Limongello? Who was better than Hornreich?


The truth is there were so many great action bowleres in the 60's that everyone has their favorites. It's like picking great hitters between Joe DiMaggio And Ted Williams.

Lemon and Horn were two guys I loved seeing.
Daly was the biggest backer for sure.
Big Mouth...

guest big mouth. Were you at central the night dewey whipped Limongello? Heard that lemon was getting whipped so bad, they had to pull him off the lanes.
were you ever at skytop?


I never saw Dewey Blair lose at Central. He beat everybody. But this was all 40 years ago. So don't have any specific memory of Lemon being dragged off the lanes. I do remember guys being tapped out and borrowing money from Max the shylock to stay in the action. That was really crazy since the vig was ten percent a day.

Went to Skytop several times. That was Ralph Engan's home. He and Hank Boroughs were a really tough pair.
SW...


max charged 10 pts. a week, not a day. Did you see the match at skytop when dewie kicked Ralph's ass and quit at 8am to go to school. He was only 16. Dewey quit bowling a fewyears later and joined the navy after he hurt his bowling arm and was never the same again. heard that he bowled in the newsday in the seventies, but was never the same bowler as when he was 16.
Stevie, did you ever see Kenny Barber?


You're right about Max. I knew it was a week. No,didn't see Dewey cream Ralph at Skytop, but I do remember Dewey was only 16-17 when he was around. Thanks for telling me what happened to him. He was a real quiet clean cut kid. Looked out of place with all of us so called low lifes. Am I losing it but didn't Dewey show up at Central the first time with a backer who flashed a gun in his waistband?

Kenny Barber was terriffic and a nice guy too. Did you see Frankie Medici bowl action? He was similar in size to Lemon but not as good. A Bronx kid.

Funny, I haven't thought about all this in many years. I was in my late teens and twenties when it was happening. The best part was not really the money but the laughs and seeing so many great characters who could bowl like demons. All the talk setting up matches and milling around looking for an edge was priceless.
SW...

how about ira the whale katz. i only heard of him ever losing once to steve cook at hempstead. i always heard he was one of the best action bowlers ever from long island
TITS...


the whale was real good, but never in the class of limongello. he did get creamed by steve cook at royal lanes. should never have been on the same pair as this pba hall of famer
Real Smart...

[Billy Tops]

Hey Lou, Now you are really bringing back the memories. My first trip to Paramus was with paul Polito as a 17 year old kid, just really learning to bowl. As a lefty, Roger Gardner told me I threw the ball like a righty, with a lot of turn, I reminded him of Mike McGrath.

That first time to Paramus was more than I could have imagined. I did not know who to watch first. Roth, Petraglia, Ralph Engan, Bob Perry ( who later became a friend, and introduce me to Mark Roth for the first time)etc.. For a kid who's dream it was to become a
professional bowler, this was paradise.

The fellow who stood out the most to me at that time was Teata Semiz. His smooth timing and fluid swing produced devastating results at Paramus. After every Monday nite session at Paramus, I would rethink everything I saw that nite, then apply it to my practice sessions. After that first time I was determined to improve my game and get into that league.

That happened after I had a really good year 1979-80, however only bowling in one league. But in that league I shot 2 sanctioned 300's, had 22 700 series, 8 of which were over 750, and averaged 217.

I remember my first nite bowling at Paramus, I was very nervous as well I should be, my opponent was John Petraglia. By the time my nerves subsided, Iwas down 2 games. But in the thrid game I showed John a little something. I made it very close after 9 frames covering a washout. John finished with 255, Lou I wasn't going down, I struck out in the 10th for 257 to win my point. What a first nite at Paramus, not only to bowl in the league, but to stay right with a top pro for the evening was truly something special.

You were talking about bowling the ledge, that was something I learned in a hurry. I was recruited to bowl for one of the top teams at Lyons Lanes in Irvington, NJ on Sunday Morning. It was a true gutter shot from both sides. When I first went there to practice, I didn't throw 5 balls before I was approached by several bowlers for an action match.

I will continue later, the macaroni is ready. Keep the memories coming Lou, by the way how did the bowling go today, most important, I hope it was fun... Vinny

[Billy Tops]

Answers for some questions: The other real big backer was the guy that came with Dewey Blair....Steve do you remember his name? The match at Skytop ended at about 6am not 8am and he didn't destroy Ralph I think he came up 2 games. But your right he did destroy Mike L. and Ernie and everyone else he bowled during that short period of time. For my money the best I ever saw and I would put Jeff Kidder 2nd.
See you Friday Steve.
JK...


OK some more answers: The managers name at Gun Post was "SKI".....remember now?
For the guy who asked about Gun Post:48 lanes on 2 levels. Sat. night after 1 am there was action on every pair (no open play bowlers ever) There were crap games in the mens room AND ladies room,card games at the tables etc. Usually there were no women in the house except for Psycho Dave's girlfriend. Oh by the way Steve I bowled psycho Dave once after he came from a wedding. He bowled in his tux and I wrecked him. I was told that he used to send his girlfriend out to the car to have sex with guys so he could have more money to bet. Not sure if that's true or not. But the best part about Gun Post was Howie Polefski. Great bowler and the funniest guy on the planet. I was there the first time it got raided and they took Ernie and Mike Ginsberg and a bunch of other guys (including Ski) and then they ripped the scoretable out to have evidence of the gambling. It seems all the names of the guys betting in the middle were written on the scoretable. I miss those days!!!
JK...


Last I heard Dewey Blair was bowling in a house in Newberg NY (where he lives) and was bowling 3 games a week and averaging about 216. That was about 6 years ago. I was told he is an architect today. You're right Steve he had a lot more class then the rest of us.
JK...


JK, I do remember Ski. More about Gun Post. Mike Ginsberg was upstairs betting around 7am one morning. All of a sudden his Father shows up and says "So these are the bums you hang out with" tells Mike they are leaving for vacation and he should go down to the car. He says "no, I'm staying here". The father goes out to the car and throws Mike's clothes in the street and drives away.Everyone was upstairs looking out the window. Mike just ignored it all.

We all thought Pyscho Dave was a pimp.

I was there when it got raided also. Funny because they unscewed the score table with all the bets wriiten on it and took away the kid keeping score.

After that incident the action started big time at Central.
SW...

I remember Kenny Barber from Kings Lanes on Flatbush ave. I threw a real big ball for the time, was a lot of fun to watch, who rembers the Dwoskin brothers, Lenny the cane and his con artist brother who served time in Texas
Old Brooklyn Action Bowler...


buffalo is out of the slam after 5 years on probation, lives not far from ft. lauderdale and fries burgers for a living. Were you old timers at seaview? did anybody witness the iggy heart attack match? And it's hard to believe you guys felt dewey was the best and not hornreich. from what the horn said, dewey was great but was not that good of an inside shooter. And ironically, schlegel was from newburgh while bowling the action in the 60s.


Never heard of Seaview where was it? I did not witnes the fake heart attack but it was THE topic of discussion for years afterward. OK here's the deal........Richie Hornreich was a great action shooter one of the best ever. Richie played inside everywhere almost never played outside atleast not when I watched him so how are we to know if he could play outside Dewey was either outside or down and in if he had to play 3rd arrow he would have gotten nose bleeds. Two very different games both great bowlers but for that period of a year or so NOBODY and I mean NOBODY beat Dewey. You could watch him bowl 10 games and never see him shoot anything other than a one pin spare usually the 4 pin. I'm sure the reason was he wanted every ball to be packed so of course he would leave more 4 pins than 10 pins. I'm sorry you never got to see him bowl it was a thing of beauty. Oh by the way spoke to a friend of mine in Fishkill today and he told me that Dewey started a league last year at Fishkill Lanes was averaging 228 and quit after 6 weeks because he didn't like the shot. ( must have been inside) Ha!
Later
JK...


Ernie Schlegel didn't move to Newburgh until the very late 60's or even later. He lived in my neighborhood(Inwood) in upper Manhattan. Another memory. Ernie and I went to a small old house in the Bronx named Boston Road Lanes. He bowled a cab driver named Sy Million. Sy broke us and had to drive us home in his cab

Inside, outside, all I know is Dewey Blair was inhuman and never lost to anybody. He was a machine.

JK, bring pictures.

Anybody bowl action at Whitestone? That was a real good house with all the regulars.
SW...


ernie was a resident of newburgh when central was at it's biggest in 1967. so the question has been answered. The horn was better, since he could play any part of the lane, from the gutter(leader lanes in brooklyn) through the fourth diamond-which not many could in those days(lemon could and naturally ralph who could hook the whole lane). seaview located in canarsie. seaview and colony and avenue m also in brooklyn were the biggest in the very early sixties. philly marino was the king at seaview and colony.


Buffalo is alive and working the snack bar at sawgrass lanes in sawgrass florida. His brother the cane got hitched again a few years ago, lives not far from Sawgrass and disappeared from the game two years ago. his site has been empty that long. nobody had a better memory for stories than him, from iggy to horn to lemon, etc. Too bad the old days disappeared. nobody needed a lock and the sailors were always there, seven, eight, nine down and still bowling as long as they had cash. CENTRAL was awesome. If you were winning you could win a ton. if you were stuck, there was always a match to get you out. Why did it have to burn down?
Real Smart...


Some facts about Richie Hornreich, so much talent but being a degenerate gambler was his downfall(horses, casinos, etc, etc, etc). Could have been a great pba bowler.
1. at the age of 16 finished 10TH in the world invitational in chicago against the best around(carter, weber, etc.)
2. averaged 217, unheard of in those days at bedford bowl.
3. first to average 200(206) at the toughest alley in the east, bowlmor
4. won the vargo one year, 4 lb. wood, with a 1060 or 1080 for 5.
5. destroyed jim godman, pbahof at central in 1967 after he had just won the firestone.
6 etc, etc, etc
ExDegenerate...

[Billy Tops]

JK, I heard enuf about Dewey from many others and Richie to comment. Dewey was like Ernie, he could not play inside with rubber. Of course, Ernie is blind in one eye. Richie could do so much more and Dewey was only around for such a short period. Richie many times betting 1g out of his pocket. He accomplished so much in about a five or six year period. Saw him make the 7-10 to win a match at central betting a grand. Richie showed no pressure. One day in vegas, Burton challenged Richie for 1g to a three game total wood match. Richie said where he came from, they bowl one game at a time. He whipped out 10g for one game and Burton disappeared like a skunk.
It would have been great to see Dewey, but I went to Central in 1967. I take nothing away from Dewey but Richie was the best around in his time.


Ex Degen,They BOTH had a gambling problem, trust me. I know Joey and Donna very well. They are a lot of fun to be around and I hope those days are over for them. Haven't hung around with them for a long time but it was great to see them (unfortunately) at Joe Sr.'s funeral.
All I said was Dewey was the best for the short time that he was around......he was unbeatable and he didn't HAVE to play 4th arrow so why does it matter if he could? I still want to hear from those who saw both.
JK...

Why does it matter?. Because in the real action days with rubber, not too many could play inside-richie, lemon, ralph, etc. And if Dewey would have been around in 67 he could have bowled the hornet. Richie feared nobody and too many feared him, And I'm sure Dewey must have lost when you were not around. Dewey must have thrown a full roller. he probably played the track most of the time and was not that tough on oily conditions. the horn was great on dry and oily. We will never know. My cash would have been on the horn. It's like the dispute on who was better, the horn or lemon. in the words of lemon's brother pete the former singer as told to the cane a few years ago richie was better. how much better a few pins. in my book they were equal. lemon another waste of talent due to gambling. 6 wins on the tour in less than ten years, including two majors in 1971, which got him into the pbahof. been dealing in AC for close to 20 years.
ExDegenerate...


My apologies. Joe's wife's name is Debbie not Donna and I have no clue why I wrote that except that at my age I'm partially braindead.
The other thing I wanted to say was: Gambling is a disease like drinking or anything else. Take that away from the Berardi's and they are super people.
JK...


Never knew or heard about berardi's gambling problem. Saw him last about 20 years ago. if you say so and apparently you knew him well, I can buy that.
Another reason why ROTH was so great on tour, no gambling not that he ever bet alot in action. Richie had the talent to be great on tour and lemon would have won many more stops, if not for the degenerate gambling. The downfall of many in all sports. ask pete rose and denny mcclain, back in the joint again a few years ago. of courst it never affected michael jordan who has millions to blow.
ExDegenerate...


As good as these great sixties action bowlers were, how do they stack up against Jeff Kidda, I could be wrong but I think Jeff bowled in more big action matches than anyone else and stayed on top longer than the rest.

Why didn't Jeff ever turn pro.
Zoo Master...


To me Jeff was second to Dewey. Again Dewey only bowled for a year or so and Jeff bowled forever so hard to say. As far as why Jeff never turned pro is very simple. He made a lot more money betting basketball and football then he could ever have made on tour. Most of you don't know this but Jeff is a genius. He had bookies in many states and would bet both teams in their home town and catch middles for BIG money. I used to play golf with Jeff,Joey B. and Teata every Wed. in Paramus. We played partners and switched every week. Teata is about a 4 handicap and the rest of us were about 12's so whoever had Teata got strokes.
Jeff had ice in his veins I swear. If he needed to make a putt for the $ he made it....period. Last I heard he owned a couple of restaurants and would use his plane to back and forth....yes he is a pilot. Till next time.....
JK...


Jeff kidder got really good when urethane lanes came in 1976. before that charlie faino was the best in the country for about 5 years. jeff retired from gambling a few years ago, lives in Hilton head and plays the market for a few clients as told to me by his former partner Bill Daly. Daly also kept a diary of all the matches they were involved in. To say kidder was the second best, you probably never saw much of Hornreich. He beat up on better bowlers. kidder did not have alot of tough competition, although he did crush Roth at Rainbow in a doubles match. And he never went on tour, because he gave up the game to become a professional gambler. he was one of the biggest around, betting 10g a game and up.
ExDegenerate...


Ex Degen,
Jeff was making big gambling bets before he started to bowl action. He quit the action because it was hard to find big money matches.
JK...


jk, that is not true. I first met Jeff when Charlie tuna brought him to Raceway when he was about 15 in 1969 or 1970. Jeff started making those big bets on sports after 1975-I knew him from 1969-1975. We used to call him Young Jeffrey. HE bowled alot of doubles with JOhnny Bell during the early seventies. They rarely if ever lost. He quit the game in 1981 to focus on being a professional gambler. These are facts. I came back to the game in 1982 and he was gone.
ExDeg...


More on Jeff. You should locate his partner, Bill Daly. He has a diary of all the matches they were involved in. Heard, again only heard that he carried his own pins.
He did challenge Earl Anthony at Garden City. Earl told him to come to Seattle. He did. For reasons unknown, the match never took off. He did not always win the big ones. In 1978, he traveled to Baltimore and either bowled Pete Couture or george Pappas. Jeff lost around 5g.
ExDog...


Whoever said that Ernie Schlegel was living in Newburgh in 1967 and that I was wrong when I said he moved there in the late 60's was the wrong one. He moved up in 1968.

Also, he NEVER threw a loaded ball with Mercury for money. We fooled around with it, but only for fun and never for money because it was uncontrollable. They were old house balls that we plugged up and redrilled to fit.

Finally on Dewey Blair. Agree with JK, if you never saw him, you can't have an opinion. He was the best, period.

Thirty five years later, he still bowls in the mid 220's.
That's three games a week.
SW...

[Billy Tops]

Ex DEgen,
The more I think about it you may be right about Jeff. I may have my years mixed up. But I know he was gambling and still bowling action but don't remember the dates.
Butch,
I will ask my friend in Fishkill to see if he can get in touch with Dewey and try to get him on the sight.
JK...


I would have to say that the biggest success story of a guy who was just a hustler has to be Ernie Schlegel. He really never worked except here and there for a bowling alley and only so he could practice for free. He's come a long way from his modest beginnings as a janitor's son.
Most of the other action bums that I knew had legitimate jobs during the day and went to the action on the weekends, like myself.
It's a great subject Butch lets see if anyone else can come up with some names and how they have succeded.
JK...


Chuck Sharp who was Mike Kilgannon's backer in the 70s has lived in Vegas for many moons and has been a millionaire for many moons since he has been there. Do not know exactly what he does, but Jimmy Mchugh has been working for him for many years.
Ernie is still a hustling bum when he can be. Saw him at Carolier less than ten years ago hustling a backer and still yelling fruit salad. Still remember what a turd he was when he beat Randy Pedersen for that 50g. Chirping to Randy the entire match attempting to blow his concentration. Randy left a stoned 8 in the tenth to lose. Ernie has always been a scumbag in my book, although I made more money on him than anybody else at Central. Do not remember ever walking away a loser on any of his matches I bet on for at least six months.
EXDeg...


Nice talk bigshot. I guess you should drop the "EX" from your name because you surely talk and act like a degenerate and I'm sure you are. What balls. Ernie has more talent in his pinky than you could ever hope to have. I can hear you now in the backround "Yeah Ernie fruit salad babe" as you collect your bet and then on the way home call him a scumbag. You f**kin lowlife. It's guys like you that made the action a piece of shit as it progressed. In the beginning it was just a bunch of guys lookin to make a buck gambling. For a while I thought you might have put that part of your life behind you but I guess not. Well we know you're not one of those degenerates who have become a success.
JK...


JK, you are 100% right. You might have bet on Ernie Ex Deg but you never knew him as a friend like JK and I did.

He has a terriffic wife and family, lives clean and sober and is the longest active member of the PBA. Has a nice home in Washington State and is is good businessman who loves the game. He tries very hard to promote the sport and raise the prize money by advocating an arena set up for more attendance and (don't laugh) but the way tennis is played for concentrated excitment.

Sure we had some times we're not proud of but, it was alot of fun and laughs and we've moved on. You obviously haven't.
SW...


The fifties and sixties were priceless, it was a time that the action bowlers just mainly wanted action. Sure they wanted to win $$$ but being in action was the most important thing.

Characters were plentifull, both on the lanes and betting on the side, the seventies were more about the money, the eighties were'nt bad, averything after that was straight downhill.
Old Timer...


Moved on to believing that schlegel is a classy bowler. Stevie, you and that dipshit Jk are the ones that are blind. He will still try to distract his competition when he can.
Did you geniuses know that the 25 second rule was implemented because of Schlegel? The pros were compalining years ago that he took too much time to deliver. I will admit that he is still a clutch bowler and does well on the ridiculous team challenge no shot conditions. I still would not trust him as far as I can spit.
ExDeg...


the best was ernie by far he beat all of them from dewey to ralph,jake lemon ritchie even the great joe s we made alot of money together.only the manhattan clique,or if he let you bet on him made money the ex was saying those things because he was still mad because he lost all the time.this is fact i grew up with him and went to the action with him. their was the bronx clique 2 or 3 of them depending on what lanes you bowled out of, the same with everybody thats what made the action each clique thought their bowler from brooklyn,queens or longisland was tops only the money separated who was and that definitly was him.
Sicle st...


How do you rate Ernie against Jeff Kitter from the mid seventies to the time Jeff gave up action bowling, did they ever bowl each other, did they ever call each other out.
Regie...


Sickle St, you sound like you were there in the days of all the real action. Do you agree with JK and me that Gun Post was the best place for action in the whole tri state area?

Were you there when Ernie and Lemon wiped everybody out in doubles?
SW...


sicke st, if you were in central in 67, schlegel never beat richie or lemon. Ernie was great as long as the shot was outside. Ernie could never play inside because he is blind in one eye. so many here really do not remember how great richie was. does anybody here remember how great charlie faino was from 1970-1975. he lived off of action and raised a family doing so. he was unbeatable during this era and rarely lost. when urethane lanes came into play in 1976, charlie's full roller was not as effective and jeff kidder became the king. somebody asked who was better jeff or ernie. at their best kidder was, from 76 until his retirement in 81. he was the best in the country. ernie was never the best at any point in the sixties. of course the competition was much stronger in the sixties.
ExDeg...


Ex Deg, love to know who you are. Bet, we all know each other from the old days. From your posts, sounds like your were one of Lemon's friends from Bklyn or Queens.

Give us a hint.
SW...


lemon never knew me. I always bet in the back. Same with hornreich. Became friendly with Richie at Fiesta. have not seen him in a few years, although I know you can find him at maple every afternoon. remember buffalo. saw him in florida over christmas. he got out of the slam last year or the year before after doing five years in Federal. He's flipping burgers in a bowling alley.
still would not trust him as far as i could throw him. and he weighs 300+
ExDeg...



ralph engan was the smoothest bowler I have ever seen. He was the Fred Astaire of getting to the line. He never ever beat Hornreich. You guys do not remember or were not at central in 1967 to see just how great Richie. He beat jim godman the pba hof with about 18 titles including the toc in 1967.he kicked his ass in doubles bowling with ernie against lemon and godman. and destroyed him when godman came back again for singles. in both matches godman averaged close to 240 and could not win. richie had so much talent from 16-21 and threw it away gambling. he's still good, but not even close to what he should have been.
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Ex Deg




there were alot of good bowlers in central but pairs and match-ups were always key to winning. i remember larry litchstien bowling with a woman in doubles and kicking ass,then they knew who dotty fothergill was. he also bowled kenny barber and chopped him up pretty good,he was the only lefty i knew who could hit central rags never found a pair he liked but he was always game to bowl.one of the best matches i seen was dewey and ernie,the first couple ernie beat him easy and dewey's backer(darba)said lets step it up and ernie agreed. next match they both were lined in 259 to 258 ernie,next 268 to 300 ernie,next match 257 to258 ernie the place was buzzing from the begining and only got better and so did the money darba loved to bet,now dewey didn't look like he was going to stop striking so ernie like the good hustler said he was getting tired they stepped up the action some more and ernie was right dewey beat him the next 2 and the match was over,it was like ali and fraiser in their prime.who really won ernie won a nice piece of change and darba lost a couple 100 the late comers looking to make a score thinking ernie would never lose didn't mind they got their moneys worth,this it why we love the action just to see some great matches.i know thats why i was there
sickle st

[Billy Tops]

Due any of you guys remember any of these real old time greats.

Is it just me or do these guys seem to have something that the modern day greats for the most part don't have?

My partial list is

ALLISON*, Glenn
BLUTH*, Ray
BOMAR, Buddy
BUNETTA, Bill
BURTON. Nelson Sr.
CAMPI, Lou
CARTER*, Don
CASTELLANO, Graz
DAY, Ned
FALCARO, Joe
FARAGALLI, Lindy
FAZIO*, Buzz
GIBSON, Therm
GOLEMBIEWSKI, Billy
HENNESSEY, Tom
HOOVER, Dick
KAWOLICS, Ed
LILLARD, Bill
LUBANSKI, Ed
McMAHON, Junie
NAGY, Steve
NORRIS, Joe
SMITH*, Harry
SPARANDO, Tony
SPINELLA, Barney VARIPAPA, Andy
WEBER*, Dick
WELU*, Billy
WILMAN, Joe

These are basically all pre 1960 greats, who else would any of you guys add to this list.


Now you are really going back. I had the pleasure of bowling with some of those greats later in there careers.
they were great bowlers. it those days you had only rubber balls and bowled on laquer lanes . you also had to be very accurate.Which leads me to believe the older bowlers were so good becouse they had to hit a mark not an area.The recent greats of the game became so good becouse they were use to hitting a board or two, when the lanes changed they got more area and used it . the bowlers of today needed that area becouse thats all they know. and if conditions were tough they are just not accustomed to being able to hit the one or two board area.
Lou Capasso


lou, if you ask joe s who had the most talent from maple it would be the horn. the best was johnny because of his 15 wins on tour. too bad you are not old enough to have seen horn in his heyday in the 60s. gambling was his downfall, track, cards, ac etc. when you knew him he was half the bowler. some stats on horn, in 1963 or 1964, he he averaged 217 at bedford, unheard of in those days. he was the first to average a deuce at that dungeon bowlmor, 1966, 206. he won the vargo one year on that four pound wood and shot 1060 or 1080. at the age of 16 he finished 10th in the world's invitational against the best in the world. the horn probably does not remember these stats because he never gave a shit. he had a super high backswing in his day and could play anywhere on the lane from the ditch to 25. what a waste of talent. he is a nice guy, never bragged how good he was. alot do not remember.
burton challenged him to a three game total wood in vegas one year when richie toured for awhile for 1g. richie said where he came from, one game at a time. richie put 10g on the table and burton pulled the invisible act. this was from the mouth of horn. how can you not believe him when he's probably stuck 1m in ac.
enuf for now.
Quest:


Dear guest you are a man who speaks the truth
richie as I said was the best i started watching him in about 69 he was awesome I know many of the old stories and rithie never bragged but I was privy to those stories. We hung together for a while when i was in my prime. we were close I am godfather to his son.
there were few that could play anywhere on the lanes like him.
Loc Capasso


Louis thank you. Very few remember how phenomenal he was. So of course you knew when you played him he was not as good. He was better in 1967 than in 1969. In 69 he started going downhill. In the early 70s at least at Fiesta he did not bowl much, at least with his hands. He bowled with the broom and was the best I saw. 170-180. You probably remember Jamsie- he was almost as good with the broom-170. Prior to the early 70s the horn never knew me. Just used to watch him in the back.
A story I'll never forget. One sunday morning after the fiesta action we're playing our usual dice game in some back alley not far from Fiesta. Richie went broke at Fiesta, lost, to him, a small $500. He's begging Rabbit whom you may remember for $10 to roll the dice. About an hour later, Rabbit lends the horn the $10. Richie picks up the dice, a number of passes and he's up $500. Now he's even for the day. A normal gambler would have quit after getting even for the day. Not the horn. About an hour later, the $500 was gone and he owed Rabbit the $10. Those were the days. I was impressed with Richie at Central, where he beat everybody including the great Jim Godman, because he would bet $1g where $100 was alot to almost anybody else betting. And he was so good in the tenth. A strike was a lock. Do not know how he did it, but I saw him make the 7-10 in the tenth for a grand. A waste of talent. Gambling did that to so many, Lemon, Berardi, and the list goes on and on --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're right,Pete didn't belong on the same lanes with Lemon. But that didn't stop him. I was Pete's partner against Lemon and somone he brought from L.I. We beat them 4 or 5 games in row. Lemon covering all the action himself. Lemon shot 220every game while his partner shots 180. Pete and I at 210 each. The match was in Hackensack N.J. Pete not satisfied,so he wants to against Lemon alone. Pete takes Lemon to his home house in River Edge. Lemon takes every dollar we had.
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Belfairbuck. Just wondering why did you bet on Mylenki? I guess you were taking a shot. why not quit after the first loss. Who was your partner in the doubles match? One other question. Who would you have bet on, on being the best in the tenth. Lemon, Hornreich or schlegel and why?
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ExDegen, Don't remember Lemon's partner, only that he was a stocky guy. Bet on Pete because we were partners, couldn't not support him. Plus in those days bad action was better than no action. Best action bowler I remember was Ralph Engan. Nobody would bowl him at Central until the end of the night. Only the big winners or big losers(trying to get even) would even think about going against him.
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Ex deg
Guest
Re: Where is Pete Mylenki?
« Reply #7 on: May 8th, 2003, 2:24pm »

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Thanx. Ralph was a great action bowler but I thought hornreich and lemon were better. If they were hooking too much, ralph had problems because he threw so much ball. He did with a ball what some bowlers cannot do today with resin. He was the smoothest bowler I ever saw, including all l the great pros. Ralph did win three stops. A real nice guy who passed away in the late 70s from cancer. I remember the night in central when he bowled Ray Shell and they tied at 300.
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pete mylenki could bowl,ernie and pete bowled mike and tom betucci on 37&38 in central and cleaned their clock,they also on another nite bowled ralph& doc iandolli and each game came down to the tenth and pete was like ice, what made ernie the best was he knew talent and when a match was in his favor,what made mike,richie, and quite a few others not as good(i didn't say talent)the never knew when to quit or if they had the best of the match they just wanted to bowl ernie was there for the kill and each time he bowled with pete they won. pete on the other hand was just like mike and richie,but the best was ralph ,ernie beat him 3 times ralph beat him 2 times,but you ask him today and he'll tell you ralph, not mike or ritchie,or anybody else............period......the best.....