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Post by Give Me A Break on Apr 2, 2003 23:02:47 GMT -5
I can't believe Lenny went back into the frying pan. After that first marriage was finally over and Lenny started leading a real life in Florida, making money, doing what he wanted when he wanted, living the life he deserved to live how did he get sucked in again, I really thought he was to smart to be trapped like a rat.
I don't know his new wife but I'll give ya 10 to 1 odds Lenny is saying to himself, what a schmuck I was, how did I fall for this shit, just about all women are demanding and demeaning, I bet she is totally controlling him because unlike his brother Buffalo, Lennys a nice guy.
I feel so bad for him, what a shame, woman are also very abusive in their own way, I hope for Lenny's sake that at least there's only her and she didn't bring a whole family into the mix for Lenny to suppoert.
Lenny, WHY?
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Post by Stevie Wonder on Apr 3, 2003 0:07:58 GMT -5
What the hell does Lenny getting married have to do with this topic. Whoever you are, didn't you have a mother? Get a life.
Now let's get back to all the great people and action stories.
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Post by EX Degenerate on Apr 3, 2003 0:24:56 GMT -5
The cane did marry again with luggage. he had many problems in the beginning and was ready to pack it in. She was abusive. Apparently, they worked it out because he seems to be happy. However, she did take him away from the one thing he loved, bowling and action. Hopefully, since has now hibernated, we will hear more stories.
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Post by JK on Apr 3, 2003 8:22:10 GMT -5
How did the Horn do playing the gutter?? I know I saw Richie get beat but I never saw Dewey get beat so I still disagree about who was better. If you never saw Dewey you really can't comment. Any of you oldtimers who saw both of them give us a vote. Another great inside shooter before central was a guy named Frankie Medici out of Tremont Lanes in the Bronx. I have a great beeper story but I'll save it for another time.
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Post by JK on Apr 3, 2003 8:24:36 GMT -5
Saw Joey Berardi at his father's funeral about a month ago. He is living in Staten Island and sells MRI equipment. He said he has his own company. Another great talent (like the Horn) who had a big gambling problem.
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Post by Ex Degenerate on Apr 3, 2003 9:47:17 GMT -5
It was Berardi's wife that had the problem. A degenerate gambler. That is the reason, he quit the tour. Whatever he was winning, she was losing. And Berardi's best in ACTION was not close to how good Richie was in ACTION. As to the tour, Berardi was the first bowler that i ever saw win a stop playing inside the 5th diamond. This HOF won the US OPEN, MASTERS AND TOC.
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Post by Guest2 on Apr 3, 2003 10:03:48 GMT -5
JK, I heard enuf about Dewey from many others and Richie to comment. Dewey was like Ernie, he could not play inside with rubber. Of course, Ernie is blind in one eye. Richie could do so much more and Dewey was only around for such a short period. Richie many times betting 1g out of his pocket. He accomplished so much in about a five or six year period. Saw him make the 7-10 to win a match at central betting a grand. Richie showed no pressure. One day in vegas, Burton challenged Richie for 1g to a three game total wood match. Richie said where he came from, they bowl one game at a time. He whipped out 10g for one game and Burton disappeared like a skunk. It would have been great to see Dewey, but I went to Central in 1967. I take nothing away from Dewey but Richie was the best around in his time.
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Post by JK on Apr 3, 2003 15:02:41 GMT -5
Ex Degen, They BOTH had a gambling problem, trust me. I know Joey and Donna very well. They are a lot of fun to be around and I hope those days are over for them. Haven't hung around with them for a long time but it was great to see them (unfortunately) at Joe Sr.'s funeral. All I said was Dewey was the best for the short time that he was around......he was unbeatable and he didn't HAVE to play 4th arrow so why does it matter if he could? I still want to hear from those who saw both. JK
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Post by Ex Degenerate on Apr 3, 2003 15:21:13 GMT -5
Why does it matter?. Because in the real action days with rubber, not too many could play inside-richie, lemon, ralph, etc. And if Dewey would have been around in 67 he could have bowled the hornet. Richie feared nobody and too many feared him, And I'm sure Dewey must have lost when you were not around. Dewey must have thrown a full roller. he probably played the track most of the time and was not that tough on oily conditions. the horn was great on dry and oily. We will never know. My cash would have been on the horn. It's like the dispute on who was better, the horn or lemon. in the words of lemon's brother pete the former singer as told to the cane a few years ago richie was better. how much better a few pins. in my book they were equal. lemon another waste of talent due to gambling. 6 wins on the tour in less than ten years, including two majors in 1971, which got him into the pbahof. been dealing in AC for close to 20 years.
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Post by JK on Apr 3, 2003 15:22:31 GMT -5
My apologies. Joe's wife's name is Debbie not Donna and I have no clue why I wrote that except that at my age I'm partially braindead. The other thing I wanted to say was: Gambling is a disease like drinking or anything else. Take that away from the Berardi's and they are super people.
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Post by Ex dEGENERATE on Apr 3, 2003 15:30:43 GMT -5
Never knew or heard about berardi's gambling problem. Saw him last about 20 years ago. if you say so and apparently you knew him well, I can buy that. Another reason why ROTH was so great on tour, no gambling not that he ever bet alot in action. Richie had the talent to be great on tour and lemon would have won many more stops, if not for the degenerate gambling. The downfall of many in all sports. ask pete rose and denny mcclain, back in the joint again a few years ago. of courst it never affected michael jordan who has millions to blow.
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Post by Zoo Master on Apr 3, 2003 21:34:56 GMT -5
As good as these great sixties action bowlers were, how do they stack up against Jeff Kidda, I could be wrong but I think Jeff bowled in more big action matches than anyone else and stayed on top longer than the rest.
Why didn't Jeff ever turn pro.
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Post by JK on Apr 3, 2003 22:33:52 GMT -5
To me Jeff was second to Dewey. Again Dewey only bowled for a year or so and Jeff bowled forever so hard to say. As far as why Jeff never turned pro is very simple. He made a lot more money betting basketball and football then he could ever have made on tour. Most of you don't know this but Jeff is a genius. He had bookies in many states and would bet both teams in their home town and catch middles for BIG money. I used to play golf with Jeff,Joey B. and Teata every Wed. in Paramus. We played partners and switched every week. Teata is about a 4 handicap and the rest of us were about 12's so whoever had Teata got strokes. Jeff had ice in his veins I swear. If he needed to make a putt for the $ he made it....period. Last I heard he owned a couple of restaurants and would use his plane to back and forth....yes he is a pilot. Till next time.....
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Post by Ex Degenerate on Apr 4, 2003 1:17:41 GMT -5
Jeff kidder got really good when urethane lanes came in 1976. before that charlie faino was the best in the country for about 5 years. jeff retired from gambling a few years ago, lives in Hilton head and plays the market for a few clients as told to me by his former partner Bill Daly. Daly also kept a diary of all the matches they were involved in. To say kidder was the second best, you probably never saw much of Hornreich. He beat up on better bowlers. kidder did not have alot of tough competition, although he did crush Roth at Rainbow in a doubles match. And he never went on tour, because he gave up the game to become a professional gambler. he was one of the biggest around, betting 10g a game and up.
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Post by JK on Apr 4, 2003 8:44:35 GMT -5
Ex Degen, Jeff was making big gambling bets before he started to bowl action. He quit the action because it was hard to find big money matches.
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Post by Ex Deg on Apr 4, 2003 11:17:05 GMT -5
jk, that is not true. I first met Jeff when Charlie tuna brought him to Raceway when he was about 15 in 1969 or 1970. Jeff started making those big bets on sports after 1975-I knew him from 1969-1975. We used to call him Young Jeffrey. HE bowled alot of doubles with JOhnny Bell during the early seventies. They rarely if ever lost. He quit the game in 1981 to focus on being a professional gambler. These are facts. I came back to the game in 1982 and he was gone.
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Post by Loved The Action on Apr 4, 2003 20:34:35 GMT -5
What more do you have on Jeff, love to hear more, I'm involved with motion pictures, who knows?
Sounds like it would make a great story!
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Post by EX Deg on Apr 4, 2003 21:23:08 GMT -5
More on Jeff. You should locate his partner, Bill Daly. He has a diary of all the matches they were involved in. Heard, again only heard that he carried his own pins. He did challenge Earl Anthony at Garden City. Earl told him to come to Seattle. He did. For reasons unknown, the match never took off. He did not always win the big ones. In 1978, he traveled to Baltimore and either bowled Pete Couture or george Pappas. Jeff lost around 5g.
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AC Butch
New Member
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Posts: 14
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Post by AC Butch on Apr 4, 2003 23:38:55 GMT -5
My Big Hustle I had worked on Wall Street for a few years and rose through the ranks quickly, I became the manager of the margin dept at Bache and then Reynolds & Company. I was very unhappy working for someone so I quit and purchased a NYC Taxi Cab medallion, much to the disagreement of my wife, who loved the idea of being the bosses wife at the office parties, what a put down it was to say my husbands a cab driver.
I decided to work nights, which at least put me back in my environment. My workday began every night at 6 PM after the rush hour; I would stop at about 12 (short hours) and go to where it all started, the bar on Ovington Ave. The bowling alley part no longer existed, the poolroom was expanded, but I was there for the card games that went on right at the bar. I would meet my partner Larry who also went to work on wall St and then purchased a cab with me. We both supplemented our night's pay from the card games each night; the other players just weren't in our class. It was like taking candy from babies; besides, they were all drunk on top of it.
One night we were having a drink and just talking, I think we wiped every body out. Larry was saying we should start getting some exercise, why not go bowling. At first I said no, but then he talked me into it, It was a Tuesday night about 2 in the morning and we soon found out that none of the local lanes were open 24 hours any more. I actually got a sick feeling in my stomach; I was 30 years old and felt as though my era had slipped by me.
We decided to take a gamble and drive out to Long Island to see if Green Acres Bowl was open. On the way out we started to reminisce about all the years of action we were involved in and could it be possible that it doesn't exist any more, I felt that was impossible, it was always there. It took about 40 minutes to get there, as we approached the shopping center, I found myself almost praying that it would be open. A great relief came across me when I saw the outside lights on. As we walked into the alleys my eyes were searching everywhere at once, Green acres was a very large establishment. Would there be any action, would there be anyone I new. All of a sudden I spotted something going on way down at the end of the right side of the bowling alley. I found my heart actually racing as we walked down there, sure as shit! It was a match game. I felt a great feeling of relief go through my body, it was only one game, but that really seemed to mean something to me.
I didn't know anyone that was there, they were descend bowlers, bowling for a few hundred a game, with about 8 people betting on the side. One guy was covering all the action for this one bowler called the beeper, he was called the Beeper because he didn't talk, he beeped. The person backing him was named Barry Bernstein, a middle aged Jewish man who owned a successful business in the garment center, and loved to gamble. After watching a few games, I did what I hadn't done since I was 11 years old. I rented a pair of house shoes and started bowling with a house ball. I bowled a few games with Larry, we both bowled pretty bad, which was nothing new to Larry; he never was much of a bowler.
The match game was over and every one was just sitting around shooting the shit. From where I was sitting with Larry it wasn't hard to over hear them, it gave me a little insight into what was going on in the area. Thursday nights, the action was at Kuskies in Lynbrook Long Island after the Classic league, a rich trucking company owner by the name of Mac, was the big money backer there, Mac was in his mid sixties. Saturday night the action was at Raceway lanes in Yonkers, a 2-floor movie house, converted into a bowling alley. The big names came from all over for the weekend action. Friday night was Whitestone lanes in Queens. The biggest action around was being backed by Bill Daly, A thin guy about 5ft 10, in his mid 20s. Bill was a 190s bowler himself, but only went head to head with someone when he had a big advantage. He figured people were willing to take a shot at his long money. His #1 horse was a 16year old by the name of Jeff Kidder; Jeff had ice water in running through his veins, and was maybe the best action bowler I ever saw. Where Bill Daly's money came from, nobody knew, he went into the Army broke, when he came out and started backing Jeff and Cliffie Bergman, he covered all bets, no matter what the amount was. It was fun watching Jeff bowling against some of Macs horses from Kuskies, Mac sponsored quite a few top pro bowlers on the PBA tour. When some of his guys were in town, Jeff would bowl them, usually coming out on top.
Instead of going to the bar every night we started to check out these different action houses, stayed quietly in the background, and just observed what was going on. Most of the players were different from the last time I was involved. To some extent the action was even bigger than when I was in it, but there wasn't as much of it, another big change was how careful everyone seemed to be about whom they bowled, they all kept looking for an edge. I was driving with Larry to Green Acres on a Monday night, this time I brought my own bowling ball and shoes; I kept them from years ago. Larry said I should get back in shape and bowl some of these guys. I agreed, but not the way he meant it. I told him my plan was for us to act like big money pigeons, I told him I wanted to bowl the backers, Barry Bernstein, and then Bill Daly with Mac betting on him. Larry said it'll never happen, some one would know me from the past and kill the deal, besides, where would I get the type of bankroll needed to bowl these guys with.. I told Larry to leave it up to me, I could con them, and the cash would come from Dougie, who was doing very well with a Amcco transmission business that he owned, Doug robbed all his customers blind.
It was some years since I saw Doug, but I new if I told him I had a pigeon he'd come running. The first thing we did that night was bundle up all our singles from the cab business with some big bills on the top and bottom. I managed to start up a conversation with Barry, mentioned that I use to be a fairly good bowler years ago but can't seem to recapture it. I figured this way I was covered incase any one told him about me. I also mentioned that I owned a cab company. I then started bowling against Larry a few alleys away and started flashing the bankroll after each game to pay off Larry for the game I just lost to him. That was the hardest part, being bad enough to actually loose to Larry. This went on a few days a week for the next 2 months, I formed a nice relationship with Barry, a few times he asked to join in with us and make it a 3 way pot game. I declined, I told him I've seen him bowl and I wasn't back in shape yet. Barry was a low 170s bowler; I was already shooting 190s or better in other houses when I practiced for real. By locking him out I was setting him up for the big kill, then I figured the money I beat him for would be used against Bill Daly, with hopefully Mac betting on Bill, If all went right, I could make a few years pay. I already was forming a relationship with the both of them, whom both disliked Barry. I mentioned how Barry was trying to hustle me, and that if I could just get a little better I would bowl him, don't forget, Bill was a much better bowler than Barry. I kept coming off as a has been, with lots of fresh money. (Continued Below)
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AC Butch
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Post by AC Butch on Apr 4, 2003 23:40:02 GMT -5
(contiued from above post)
Through out this period they saw Larry beat me for what seemed to be a small fortune, he would kid around with me and ask how much fresh money my cabs brought in for him that night, he acted very obnoxious. It got to a point where they all wanted a piece of me instead of just Larry getting it all. He actually would wink at them, as though to say, this is my private fish. I called my friend Doug in New Jersey, told him what was going on, and just as I had hoped he said to set it up, money was no problem.
That night at Green Acres I managed to barely beat Larry for the first time and started talking like a big shot to Barry, I said it's finally coming back, that I'm ready for him head to head. I think he thought I was nuts. Larry kept on saying that I shouldn't even consider bowling Barry, as planned, I got mad at Larry, told him to get f**ked, and in the heat of anger told Barry to name the day. To my surprise, Barry said the only place he would bowl me was at Times Square Lanes in Manhattan, 42nd St & B'way. That really threw me for a loop, I couldn't figure it. Turns out that's the general area where his business is, and that's actually his home lanes. I was never in Times Square Lanes let alone bowl there, I said no problem. The match was set for that Wednesday night.
I met Doug and his brother in front of a coffee shop near the bowling alley, Larry didn't come because he and Douglas weren't on talking terms, I gave him a piece of the pie anyway. Doug's older brother came with him, had arms like tree trunks and a permit to carry. The bowling alley was right around the corner from the famous Ames poolroom, where the Hustler with Jackie Gleason was shot. Times Square lanes was below street level, as we entered, we saw quite a few people waiting for us, we were amongst the few white people there, I was beginning to wonder if this was a mistake, maybe Barry knew I was hustling him. He greeted us and asked where Larry was; I said I was still pissed at him. I introduced Doug and his brother, who accidentally on purpose, let his piece be seen. We started practicing, after about 10 balls each; we were ready to start the match. I asked Barry what he wanted to bowl for, to my astonishment, he only put down $200, At this point Douglas stood up, faced the crowd of about 25 people, took out a tremendous wade of money, all $100s, and boldly announced, I'm covering the house, put it up gentlemen.
At that moment I felt sky high, it was a long time since I felt like this last. I went on to beat Barry 7 straight games, after purposely loosing the second game. The hardest part was keeping it close. Barry kept going into the empty office of the bowling alley and getting more cash, liked he owned the place, maybe he did. We took him and the crowd for $9000 cash; the last game was a $2500 marker. I was paid the following week at Green Acres; Barry told me he'd never bowl me again. I told him that if I get better I'd like to bowl Bill Daly next, I think he knows what happened, he said to me, let me know when you set up the match, I like to bet on you, and then he winked at me. It took another month to set up a match with Bill Daly. Douglas was broke from the trotters; I got in touch with Paul, who made arrangements with his bookie Cubbie to back me. The match was set for Kuskies on a Thursday night at 1:30 am.
(My Match With Bill Daly)
That night to prepare mentally for what I hoped to be the biggest money night of my life, I left my house the regular time for work, instead I went to the Manhattan Beach hotel and checked in. Went to my room, took a shower, asked for a wake up call at 9:30, laid in bed nude with just the sheet on me, I wanted to totally soak up the moment, daydream about beating Bill and Mac for about 50 big ones, all of a sudden the phone rings, It was my wake up call, I had dosed off. I met Paul and Cubby, we went to a steak joint on the way to Kuskies. Cubby kept asking me if I was sure I could beat this guy, Paul had told him it was a shoe in, which was not true, Bill Daly was a good bowler. Cubby wanted to know how much to bet, I told him to start off at $2000, he choked, but said OK. Paul said he would do the betting. I told him, Bill would just say to name it, just tell him the amount, no bluff plays. We get to the alleys, picked a pair, and started practicing. Just like I hoped, Mac was there. I'm hitting the lanes real well in practice, Paul does what I told him not to, he asks Bill Daly, what do you wanna bowl for. Bill Daly immediately shoots back, 5 grand, Mac chirps in from the background I'll take 5 more on Bill, to save face for Paul I had to say, I only wanted to start for two. I win the first game, tie the second game, win the 3rd and 4th, Bill comes over to me and has the balls to say, my lowest game is 214, and I haven't won a game yet. He said I had one of 2 choices. Change lanes or bowl Jeff Kidder on these lanes. I said no to both, he said if I didn't pick one of the two, I would never get the chance again to get into his money. I told him to get f**ked, and put my ball away. We ended up winning $10,000, I never bowled him again.
As I was walking out Barry Bernstein was walking in, he really got pissed off when he found out about the match and I didn't call him. He said it wasn't the money, it was the chance to rub it in Bills face, that he really disliked him. It was mixed feelings on the way home, the money was good, but we felt cheated. Once again, Larry wasn't there, because he and Paul also don't talk anymore... butch
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Post by SAV on Apr 4, 2003 23:49:16 GMT -5
DIDNT YOU POST THIS ALREADY!
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AC Butch
New Member
I Love Action
Posts: 14
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Post by AC Butch on Apr 5, 2003 0:05:31 GMT -5
Where
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Post by Stevie Wonder on Apr 5, 2003 0:09:32 GMT -5
Whoever said that Ernie Schlegel was living in Newburgh in 1967 and that I was wrong when I said he moved there in the late 60's was the wrong one. He moved up in 1968.
Also, he NEVER threw a loaded ball with Mercury for money. We fooled around with it, but only for fun and never for money because it was uncontrollable. They were old house balls that we plugged up and redrilled to fit.
Finally on Dewey Blair. Agree with JK, if you never saw him, you can't have an opinion. He was the best, period.
Thirty five years later, he still bowls in the mid 220's. That's three games a week.
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AC Butch
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Post by AC Butch on Apr 5, 2003 1:32:15 GMT -5
It would be great if someone could get Dewey to send in a little write up on himself to be posted and made a permanent part of this site ActionBowlers.com Same goes for Jeff or any of the other great action bowlers, Rudy had quite a bit of contact with this site. www.actionbowlers.com/photos-rv.html
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Post by JK on Apr 5, 2003 6:51:35 GMT -5
Ex DEgen, The more I think about it you may be right about Jeff. I may have my years mixed up. But I know he was gambling and still bowling action but don't remember the dates. Butch, I will ask my friend in Fishkill to see if he can get in touch with Dewey and try to get him on the sight. JK
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AC Butch
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Post by AC Butch on Apr 5, 2003 12:31:29 GMT -5
Ex DEgen, Butch, I will ask my friend in Fishkill to see if he can get in touch with Dewey and try to get him on the sight. JK Great, give it a shot.
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Post by Ex Deg on Apr 5, 2003 15:09:12 GMT -5
Great stories Butch. one correction, however. Jeff was in his early 20s(maybe 21) when Daly started backing him. Where did Daly get all his money. A ton was from gambling. You can figure out the rest. About a year ago, he avoided doing hard time.Again, somebody would have to get a hold of Daly and he could give you Jeff's e-mail address in Hilton Head. ALOT do not know, but Jeff is a college graduate with a degree in accounting. Guess being a numbers man, helped him make all that moolah betting sports. Daly made a ton himself. They always did their homework. From what Daly had told me, they kept statistics on all the games, like hundreds of sheets. They may have also had inside dope on who was hurting which gave them a big edge in making their selections. Daly also told me that he kept a diary of all the matches they were involved in.
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AC Butch
New Member
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Posts: 14
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Post by AC Butch on Apr 5, 2003 16:58:46 GMT -5
Learning The Hustle: 1959
The first real experiences I had witnessing a total hustle involved Bernie Bananas and Al Rosa. Bernie was a young Jewish boy that looked like your typical bookworm, a real nerd or so you would think.
Before he found the bowling alley he was a hard working grade A student on his way to becoming a lawyer, he was my age 15. Al Rosa was in his mid twenties, about 6ft tall with a spare tire around the middle, just married, and just moved into the neighborhood, a real nice guy, lived above a store on Ave M across the street from the bowling alley, had a high paying job as a fur cutter. Right after Al moved onto Ave M, he made the biggest mistake of his life; he walked into the bowling alley.
Al would take the D train home from his job in Manhattan, which ran on the elevated line on McDonald Ave right along side the bowling alley. It was payday, Al's pockets were full, and as he walked down the steps from the train he decided to check out the bowling alley. The second he walked through the door, Bernie new he had a pigeon. What went on the next year changed and ruined Al's Life forever. Bernie would bowl Al every Friday when he got paid, after he beat Al for his the whole paycheck he would bowl one more game on credit, this way Al would have to come back the following week, on pay day, to give Bernie what was owed to him from the previous week. That would start the whole cycle over again. Al Rosa couldn't beat Bernie at bowling if both Bernie's eyes were covered; it was an out and out hustle. Al became a degenerate gambler, lost his wife, his job, his self-respect, and everything else that ever meant anything to him... butch
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Post by AC Butch on Apr 5, 2003 18:57:09 GMT -5
How about some success stories of guys that were just hustlers and gamblers who moved on and are now doing well and leading "normal" lives?
Bowling action in the old days was a great education for me.
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Post by SAV on Apr 8, 2003 14:20:10 GMT -5
You posted it in Confessions of a Bowling Alley Hustler.
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